Ayahuasca or similar treatments (psychedelics)

[EasyStreet]

Firm yes.

Edited MT to NT

[johnram]

May i inquire what?

[EasyStreet]

If a hypothetical person were to go on a boat outside the three mile limit:

SYNTHETICS
Psilocybin
Maybe DMT

PLANTS
mushroom

But this is easy to say and not do. When I had access to these materials years ago I skipped them for the windowpane of which I had a nearly inexhaustible supply.

Times have changed, you have otherwise very traditional western experts being open minded and affirmative of these practices. And Silicon Valley gurus doing it for creativity.

Yes I am interested but not sure how to pursue.

But my current set and setting are not good at all.

I think I have other kinds of work ahead of me.

Be well, Johnram, and EH you too. You have certainly travelled a hard journey and I respect you so much for sharing your painful truth so that others might benefit!

With thanks,

[johnram]

thank you both for sharing

Easystreet, its pscylocibin i am looking into in Amsterdam.

[earthhorse]

Thanks Johnram. It was a deep betrayal of trust. It is still painful... it made it hard to trust good feelings, to trust myself.

I think since I lost my faith that I had as a child, in my early twenties I was searching for another path to ground my moral compass and connect me with something greater than myself, to heal but also to be in wonder, to revere, to pray to give thanks - I missed those things very much. And i have to keep reminding my self that I can do this in my own way and how much it soothes me. I was looking for a spiritual path and I thought Shamanism was for me, (this of course came to a halt when what happened happened ), as I was and remain a fan of natural/ whole/ herbal medicines. It was very exciting...

I tend to be someone who sees divinity in all things and the natural world as full of spirit. So was quite and am quite drawn to animism. Also as a child God for me wasn't a guy in heaven, but a loving presence in all things... I also seriously practiced Buddhism for some years - but now, I very much steer clear of any form of organized religion, I am very tried of people abusing power, or making arbitrary rules to uphold inequality - breeding intolerance, making some people subhuman or placing people above other life.

Oddly one of the things that I got from taking Ayahuasca, was a sense of proportion. My realization was that it is so important to be a custodian of value in THIS world, that this life was and is an exquisite experience, a privilege not to be wasted. That I needed to be sensitive to. That other worldliness and spirituality, is all well and good and this mysticism of being is always to be tapped into. But having both feet in the here and now, in our own culture, having critical awareness, sensitive to injustice to fairness to consequences to life, this was the right way to be - not to be indifferent or detached that wasn't my path. (I had many dreams before I used Ibogaine too... it was quite strange, it was like it was speaking to me in my dreams. And those dreams had to do with colonial injustice and whiteness well before I was properly versed in this, very graphically portrayed, like a great war, slaveships, and then ending in a stage with people from the Congo put into servant roles and very furious with me in the only spectator in the audience but not saying a word... also I dreamed of frogs and regeneration - the place where we went to take it incidentally was stream full of the most spectacular frogs...) And this is what helped me become an active to protect the environment and care about others experiencing oppression... my first experience with Ayahuasca deeply challenged my death wish, that was sitting in the core of my being, revealed it to me... and very healingly put me in touch with that helped me understand I had a choice on an emotional level... helped give me back a sense of innate wonder, the glory of life.

I don't actually think there is anything quite like Ayahuasca... so I find it hard to think of how other substances could prepare you for it. I think knowing you have a high tolerance for metabolizing other substances does make a difference. And knowing that you are stable, safe and aren't likely to experience psychosis helps too. It seems you are pretty well informed and already have ideas about what you would like to try, go with your own ideas.

If you aren't able to metabolize things, I know people just throw it up and can't keep it in their bodies... or it can be too heavy for them once they keep it down... and they just become overwhelmed, and even just fall asleep.

The 'hallucinations' are also much less about the mild poisoning or euphoria other things induce - like your senses fooling you like optical illusions or fantasies. It must indeed have to do with the DMT... (but it is quite different also to experiences other friends of mine had with just pure DMT)... it is more I would say like experiencing visions. It can feel like remembering. It's complex and intricate 'emotionally charged journey. It's usually very lucid.

People who prepare for Ayahuasca, fast and meditate, you can read about different approaches to preparation on line - this can lead though to a MUCH stronger experience...

It could help to do the milder version in Santo Daime first for instance, rather than starting with the very potent and physically debilitating doses in the Ayahuasca rituals. In Santo Daime they also use weed to compliment and come down from the experience.

Good luck!

EH

[earthhorse]

Hi Johnram,

Feeling sorry that I may have hidden pain in this thread that needed it's own space! Hope this didn't take too much form you Johnram.

I have this huge urge to delete it. But will leave it here. I feel maybe other people might benefit from been conscious of those things too and maybe there are others reading who have had similar experiences and won't feel alone.

Take good and loving care Johnram,

EH

[johnram]

It's your choice, and i imagine hard but also possibly cathartic for you to say those things.
For my purpose, i have learnt a lot from both of you and will leave any of those decisions to you.

Just want to say i am immensely in awe of your strength and courage.

Sincerly wishing you both well

Love

[reisha]

Ive been followin this thread, debatin whethter to chime in or not.

Suffice to say, .....

Im a child of the 60s
My pro career was in music & entertainment
Im still my home region, west coast of usa
Connect the dots.....

The stories i could tell!

Cant really add much to whats already been said.
That bein said, speakin redundantly only for mice elf, despite everything, for me, its saved hundreds of thousands of dollars & hrs on a couch! Ymmv, of course!!!

If ya poke around on the web, terrence mckenna, wavy gravy, ken keasey, various chemical socieites, etc can provide a broader perspective.

[johnram]

thanks for posting Reisha, and understood

a general update from me:

i have contacted a few therapists that work with psychedilic integration, and started to fact find, and work out if i could do it. Had 2 chats on the phone (20 minutes) and meeting them both. Also spoke to another who has told me about other alternative healing and meeting this person today, i am quite a sceptic but trying to be open to trying this energy healing.

the reason i rang all 3, is that i want to understand the risks, and be held afterwards if needed by someone who covers this stuff. Particular risk is around my mothers schizophrenia, but feel i am fairly robust but i dont have good coping mechanisms, its historically been mostly addiction and hypervigilant planning - working on that.

intending to pick one therapist to work with if i progress with an experience. I feel i am heading that way, feeling a need to shed my past and transform, but for the first time in my being, i am being a bit more small steps rather big step and fail or backout at the last minute.

i appreciate all your thoughts and support.

[Flifflo]

Hello Johnram,

I find this thread very intriguing and would love to hear how it all goes. I have been interested/terrified of ayahuasca since I went to the Amazon and met with a shaman. I’ve read a lot about (including a book written by the shaman) it and it does seem like it does something like re-setting the amygdala. I feel there is definitely something to it. It terrifies me though. I have a sense that I couldn’t handle it and could potentially go somewhere dark. This happens to me sometimes just from smoking/ingesting pot. Like really bad. Have never done more than a half hit of acid for fear that might go south too. Though I haven’t ever had a bad trip on mushrooms.

I have a friend who “micro-doses” on psilocybin and claims it has done wonders for his mental health. I tried it with him once while visiting and it did seem to open me up and free me to be me without feeling really high. It’s all in the minor amount. He does it regularly. My only problem with it is that mushrooms have always made me puke and that night after “micro-dosing” I did get sick. Though that’s all probably compounded by my acid reflux which I’ve come to find out has to do with..... wait for it...my cptsd. As a side note, just got a new book about ptsd and strategies for calming the vagus nerve. All connected! Very interesting! “Accessing the Healing Power of the Vagus Nerve”.

Anyway, I am working up to the micro-dosing idea if my stomach can take it. Still find ayahuasca fascinating but terrified by it too. Seems like some serious level stuff to me.

Earthhorse I’m so sorry that happened to you. Especially with your history and you were trying to heal. I can’t imagine how horrific that must have been. It seems like one would need to do some serious research to make sure it was all safe. I don’t think it’s a chance I could ever take, especially after hearing your story.

I know some vets who suffer ptsd and have places in Costa Rica that they keep going back to so the benefits and good places to do it exist. Good luck with all of it Johnram. Warmly, Flifflo