I'm done with 'trying'

A discussion area specifically for survivors who suffered physical, emotional, and verbal child abuse. This forum can also be used for Members who suffered sexual abuse at the time of physical, emotional and verbal abuse.

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Re: I'm done with 'trying'

Post by coconuts » Sun May 05, 2019 6:15 pm

What an interesting story. I see her strength and her understanding too. Her forgiveness amazes me. I'm not there yet. But the fight. I'd like to think I have that fight in me. That refusal to let this break me. To let it continue.

And I echo your words back to you.
. There was and is nothing 'wrong' with you. You are right it was just these faulty people, and maybe beyond that a cycle of abuse that no one until you had the strength to change
You are amazing. And my little ones are amazed at the beauty and knowing you bring us. We've never had someone stand beside us. We've always been so alone. It's such a different experience now. Having a friend who knows, who sees, and who loves us. It's quite baffling and comforting.

Little me wants to meet you in the woods when you are ready. I found a little grove with soft grass and flowers and a wonderful view of the sky. And we can hear the birds chirping

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Re: I'm done with 'trying'

Post by dancingfish » Tue May 07, 2019 10:01 pm

Dearest earthhorse, thank you so much for all your beautiful words. Yes, I quite understand where you are and that you might want to connect and not be able to. That you deserve a space to stand in, I'm so very glad that you can feel it more. :)

Bit short on words at the moment, but know my gratitude and wonder are here where you share your beautiful insights and connection with us all. Much love and caring to you. :)

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Re: I'm done with 'trying'

Post by Noname » Sat May 11, 2019 2:10 pm


I've done my best to read through everything in this thread (there's a lot, lol). I really wish I had some better words here, but just wanted to say that you've said so much that I can relate to, that I understand, and some things that have really made me think. I am glad you are here.

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Re: I'm done with 'trying'

Post by there » Sat May 11, 2019 10:31 pm

Earth horse,
Dang and double dang. Post lost. Now I'll condense.

I've read a little of Pete Walker on his website.
I think it can be a good thing that anybody who has suffered abuse tries to help others who also have.
Beyond that, it seems he might have done better to acknowledge somewhere in the book, or even if done after its publication, somewhere on his website, to clearly state his limitations, and to acknowledge how many survivors suffer more deeply than he did. That they matter just as much as he does.
I want to add that I happen to live in a geographical area where Dr. Judith Herman and Dr. Besser van der Kolk instituted their programs. From practitioners in these programs, I've received both services and disservices.
“Courage is an inner resolution to go forward despite obstacles." Rev Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Re: I'm done with 'trying'

Post by earthhorse » Tue May 14, 2019 3:39 pm

Hi Dancingfish,

Thanks so much!

I think I am a mess of trying to hold and make sense of beat shame - so many words trying to take hold of it but not really succeeding. I am very tired of hating or shaming the part of me that gets sick and isn't able to. And the idea that only the parts of me that can do or achieve or be productive or fit in are acceptable and good enough. And that I need to keep striving to return to that (never can quite get there, be good enough) state and can't just be here and now.

Thanks again for your insights.

All the very best to you,
"One kind word can warm three winter months"

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Re: I'm done with 'trying'

Post by earthhorse » Tue May 14, 2019 3:57 pm

Hi NN,

Amazed you even tried to get through this :)

This was triggered by working on what drove me to suicide at 16. Realizing again on another level a lot of what has harmed me has been environmental. And because of false messages. Trying to weed out all those experiences, flooding with them instead. Feeling the floodgate of emotional abuse flashbacks open, the degradation, drowning in it. And just wanting to shove it all off, with a huge angry cry, but as I do feeling like the slap is coming, that people will push back and say you aren't enough you are not doing well enough, you aren't doing enough. You are just making excuses. If only you did what you know you should do... I don't want to rise to those jibes anymore.

It's also just very hard to realize that I have been seen as, and treated as trash. There was no neat cut off point between abuse as a child a teenager and an adult... I have just felt shamed and ashamed all the time and have had to fight and fight and fight but fail and fail and fail. And I have these two feelings at once of wanting to take a swing at anyone who will try to shame or blame or humiliate or use me, or I guess tell me I am indeed useless and have failed, seeing that potential in random host of humanity and well fighting the paranoia that so many people have seen me as worthless, that I am depressed now AGAIN - and didn't develop the right kinds of dissociation, and well if I just 'tried', to be better this wouldn't have happened, or I would not be struggling now, or that once I reach xyz place I will be accepted and acceptable. And grasping between those tensions at a feeling of self acceptance...



Thanks anyway NN for caring.

"One kind word can warm three winter months"

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Re: I'm done with 'trying'

Post by earthhorse » Tue May 14, 2019 5:19 pm

Hi There,

Maybe you got the wrong thread :) I wasn't discussing Pete Walker's book here.

But just to summarize no one can undo harm of or make a disclaimer for:
1. Implying/stating that BPD is a form of uncurable narcissism ( contrary an import reason for Judith Herman t create the cPTSd dx)
2. making a disclaimer that addicts need to find help else where and don't really belong to the 'scope' of what he is addressing
3. Not bothering to understand complex traumatic disassociation in the slightest
4. seperating 'good' and 'bad' survivors by creating an arbitrary self diagnostic, but value riven framework.
5. And as such, by shoving these core issues aside, Appropriating cPTSD to exclusively talk about emotional healing, thus erasing the more complex experiences of other survivors, even the nature of flashbacks being grossly over simplified and exclusive,
5.And misusing a label that was about ending the silence around incest and child sexual abuse, compounded long term 'unspeakable traumas and and atrocity. But at the same time giving us all tools that should be 'universally' applicable and fix us.

Some of what he says I really like.... yet it falls woefully short of helping me deal with or even identify my cPTSD. And wondering why this label even applies to me anymore because it is so far away form my experiences and reality - even though I share this dx with many other people who have suffered severe compounded trauma.

Yes sorry even the pre 4 years old neglect and emotional distance which can cause children to nearly die is extreme and I think can cause cPTSD. But saying that degrees and implying there is a specturm and staying on the very 'lite' and incomplete end of that spectrum is not cool.

I do think people need to learn not to center their own experiences all the time and try genuinely listening and feeling with others, to make space for those experiences. As well as having some kind of transparent and accountable research method when addressing survivors of developmental trauma. Sure we can use our own experiences to help us empathize, and try to help others. And all of our experiences are valuable., but we don't really get to understand others that way, because we are limited and we need to expand our understanding and tools. It's like people saying hey it's all in the past. they want to help and they can remember times when they were able to move on... not saying this is what PW is doing , but it's a very close approximate.

I think there is a lot that appears counter intuitive to us about childhood trauma simply because so much of what happens is a taboo topic and people are just not comfortable facing it, Whether they are unaware, or even have experienced themselves, and are in denial. So intuitive work alone often strikes some important chords but continually falls short because it is too subjective. And it bothers me even more that people feel a need to not mention or de-center more severe traumatization to legitimize their own pain and care - like oh 'those' people, well they are not really human they are the statistics, the 'extremes' or 'outliers', and this is what happens to those of 'us' who are in fact 'normal'/human/belong. It also assumes that our experiences are unrelatable or too 'shocking'. If I can find wisdom in Pete Walker I am sure he could derive wisdom from survivors like me. (In fact, an unaffected person, deriving wisdom from survivors like me is where the dx comes/ arises from.)

It is such a familiar pattern. that those with lives that matter most, still feel like they don't matter, and resent any attempt to take the full attention of their audience and community from them, or to share their platforms. It feels like Levine or Walker almost take offense by movements like those set in motion by people Llke Judith Herman to care for and address some of the most unaddressed, least represented, least understood and marginalized survivors, continually misdiagnosed and mistreated in the mental health system, but who are actually present in epidemic proportions in our society. ( Walker even invites everyone to skip the first part of "trauma and recovery". which is about this, and just get to the 'relevant' second part.)

It's like saying all lives matter, to the black lives matter movement. If all lives did matter there wouldn't be a need to point out the way social injustice operates. So while everyone experiences oppression in some form in our sick society, it is not as life threatening to some as it is to others and it's good for all of us to address inequality. It's liberating for us all. But erasing those differences is just more oppression.

I hear you on being in the same city as Herman, but not seeing that reflected in the care you got, or being part of the group she could see falling between the many cracks and bad practices in the system. I am in the country with the best known experts in the field of traumatic dissociation, but one of the worst places in the world to get help for that. Long story...

Anyhow there. I really like, ( in an always feeling uncomfortable way and like I will be attacked way), talking about this stuff. I also like connecting with you. But I have to add it does not feel good that you reply with this topic on this thread. I feel unseen. And feel like people might be only taking me on a very superficial level.

I'm genuinely sorry for all my wordiness... that makes it hard to connect or relate to or even read what I say.

"One kind word can warm three winter months"

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