Criminal offence? (Hardly it seems.)

A discussion area specifically for survivors who suffered physical, emotional, and verbal child abuse. This forum can also be used for Members who suffered sexual abuse at the time of physical, emotional and verbal abuse.

Moderators: Harmony, quixote, ajei

Post Reply
Crow
Member
Posts: 1434
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:22 pm

Criminal offence? (Hardly it seems.)

Post by Crow »

Hi all,

I post a lot on my thread in Our Stories, however I wonder if I were to post specific things as new topics in the appropriate places, whether they would receive more engagement?
So, I'm posting here instead. (I have seen that when I have posted separate topics last year when I joined, that more people seemed to stumble across them. Maybe because they were new topics.)
For those who often ask me in chat which is my thread, please see viewtopic.php?t=10475 but I think I'll start posting more new topics just to try and gain more perspectives and reach others.

So, here I go. This is just me thinking out loud, but... I think we all agree on the following points being offences that would be investigated (and in proven cases with witnesses etc. would incur a penalty) by the police;

- Domestic violence (adult to adult).
- Assault in the street or public place.
- Assault on a child in a public place.

Why is it then, that even with written notes and evidence, physical child abuse rarely goes that far? Not even that, why is it allowed to go on for so long?
This comes from a place of trying to understand why over the course of five years, multiple case conferences, social services visits and supervision, children being placed on the child protection register here in the UK in the 80s, and concerned people reporting, why nothing beyond that was done.
How is it that following a disclosure five years later, all that evidence and myself finally being brave enough to speak up, it was dismissed. (Bear in mind I had no idea that services were involved until last year too.)

Generally speaking though, it seems to me that physical child abuse is not treated as a criminal offence. Adult on adult it is taken seriously, but a child's voice means nothing.

Crow

Edit: To correct spelling.
Last edited by Crow on Sat May 01, 2021 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A little boy hides in an adult's disguise.
Quote taken from an original poem that I have written.
penguin
Member
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:44 pm

Re: Criminal offence? (Hardly it seems.)

Post by penguin »

Hey Crow, I agree, it is not ok. Our systems have failed in many ways. I don't have much to say that can help here but wanted you to know I'm following along.

I did want to mention, when I come to the isurvive forum, I typically click on the survivors tab, which does not include the "our stories" threads. I have gone in there a few times, but I typically look in the survivors section much more often. I'm not sure if others do the same, but thought I'd let you know. That's why I don't often post on your thread, I just don't see it when I check in because I forget that it's in a different place.

I hope that you find some answers and comments that are helpful to you here.
Crow
Member
Posts: 1434
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: Criminal offence? (Hardly it seems.)

Post by Crow »

Hi Penguin,

No worries at all. Upon reflection I could see that when I was posting a lot of different topics rather than one I use as mine, they had more interaction. But you make a good point in that the board it's posted on makes a difference. Another member said the same that they don't go to Our Stories much, and indeed Poetry doesn't get seen as much either.

What I tend to do when I log on, I click on the hamburger button (three lines top left of page) and select New Posts and also Unread Posts and view and reply that way.

Anyway, I'll see what others say... it was really just me putting thoughts 'out there'.

Crow
A little boy hides in an adult's disguise.
Quote taken from an original poem that I have written.
earthhorse
Member
Posts: 3179
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:12 pm

Re: Criminal offence? (Hardly it seems.)

Post by earthhorse »

I think it's reprehensible Crow. I think it deserves very deep reflection. I was reading the other day the baby P. and Victoria Adjo Climbié stories. both took place in the UK There were multiple reports to the CPS, other services and the police before their horrific deaths as a result of domestic violence. And these were recent cases.

There are a number of issues when it comes to protecting children form their own families. I will list what I have observed in points:

1. Children who are being abused, in fact the more severely abused they are, the more loyal they feel to the family group. I know as a child I felt more afraid of being given away or separated from my family than I did about what they were subjecting me to. Even when children are taken into protection, the child is very distressed and often hates the person rescuing them. The child will have to be allowed to see their abusers.

This means children are unlikely to report or testify to abuse.

2. The foster care system and other services to shelter children are notoriously bad, seriously under funded and under regulated. The worst stories I have heard, come from survivors of foster care and institutional abuse.

In my case as a child in the 80s, the Christian brothers and Catholic Church were responsible for all child care by the state, What would have happened to me there is likely far worse than what I experienced in my terrible childhood home. As evidenced by the multiple class actions now running.

I think people in the system are aware of this. There is often not a truly safe alternative for a child.

3. I think the bottom line is, children are not protected.

We have a skewed justice system that focuses a lot more on criminalizing people, then taking care of victims.

And we have predators who have vested interests in being able to continue child abuse with a lot of influence and power. It's so deeply embedded in the inequality and violence in our culture. People keep saying it's personal - but how we are governed or become governable often arises from how we are treated in the family.


The rights of the child are important. That violence against a child is illegal is important too. It's just it seems that society doesn't do a very good job of protecting and taking care of children. If it's not happening with our primary carers it's super difficult to place us somewhere safer.


Sorry you are facing this Crow. And ditto to what Penguin says, I usually just hang in the survivors forums, more in the sections that apply to me, the RA forum and the PTSD DID forum. I don't often visit our stories. Will check out your topic now that I know it's there, and once I get away for a while for some fresh air :)

That you weren't protected doesn't mean it wasn't a travesty that you weren't, doesn't mean it wasn't incredibly wrong Crow. It was. You deserved to be protected.

One thing though now you know. You were witnessed. Others saw some of what happened to you.

What helped me was to ask others here how they would protect a child. It helps me to imagine how people who are truly caring would have protected and treated me.

I wouldn't have allowed it to continue Crow. I would start with your family. I would keep you safe. While they were obliged to undergo training. Given skills to stop them harming you. To understand the impact of abuse. To get help to heal their own trauma. Slowly we would try and see if it was safe for you to return. Beginning with visits, and an apology from your parents. But it couldn't happen straight away or if you remained in danger. I would take time for you to feel safe with me, so you felt freer to tell your story. As you became more confident we would set up ways for you to reach out if you are hurt, at school, in the community through daycare - multiple points and safe people we establish together who can be there for you day and night if you need. You could learn to get to know other children recovering, and be able to have a special program for children with PTS. Based on play, celebrating your creativity and learning self-confidence. Special attention would be given to areas of your development that had been injured by violence and emotional abuse. You would be given all the time you need to come out of your shell. To learn to feel safe and establish safer contact with your caregivers. If the caregivers were not caring or not capable of being good parents. Then next to having all the same firm good safety protocols, education and multiple safe people to be in touch with, finding a good foster family that is held accountable and stable. Who would show you love and make up for everything that happened a trillion times over.

Love,
EH
"One kind word can warm three winter months"
Crow
Member
Posts: 1434
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: Criminal offence? (Hardly it seems.)

Post by Crow »

earthhorse,

I often think how grateful I am that when hearing of the fate of the likes of baby P, that I didn't suffer so. And that I didn't receive severe injuries. Although I have to say that sometimes when I reflect, I wonder if there had been notable injuries whether it would have changed anything.
There's a difference between how I thought as a child and how I think now. As a child I'd have not wanted to leave the 'safety' of my parents, despite my safety being compromised. The thought of uncertainty and going into care would have been horrendous. But to stay in the family home led to more sustained abuse. Even now as an adult I'm glad I wasn't removed. But sometimes I wonder if it would have been better. It's in the past anyway, so there's no point dwelling on what wasn't or might have been.

Your three points are are so very true. I've heard too many stories about foster care. I'll share a video about foster care that I watched several weeks ago. It is very well produced, it is well acted, and it sends a very important message. It depicts the reality of foster care and the system, and the effects on children. Please take care if you do watch it... I cried a lot watching it.
ReMoved film youtu dot be/lOeQUwdAjE0

I like what you have said here, and maybe it is something I should ask myself... or even my inner child.
earthhorse wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 5:55 pm What helped me was to ask others here how they would protect a child. It helps me to imagine how people who are truly caring would have protected and treated me.
Thank you for your kind words at the end of your reply too earthhorse, I will treasure them.

Crow
A little boy hides in an adult's disguise.
Quote taken from an original poem that I have written.
Crow
Member
Posts: 1434
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: Criminal offence? (Hardly it seems.)

Post by Crow »

I remember when it was announced that smacking children became illegal in Scotland... I thought how good that was. Except, the rest of the UK hasn't followed suit.

All forms of physical punishment of children are against the law in Scotland. Children have the same legal protection from assault as adults.

The above is taken from the Scottish government website.
It's a landmark move, and a good step in the right direction, but how effective will this prove to be I wonder? Whatever... it is progress.

Crow
A little boy hides in an adult's disguise.
Quote taken from an original poem that I have written.
Qwerty
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 9:59 am

Re: Criminal offence? (Hardly it seems.)

Post by Qwerty »

I noticed this as a child. Beat or hurt a child its a shoulder shrug from the Law. Lay a finger on an adult the whole world goes mad. Children can literally bully eachother to suicide. God forbid the victim actually stand up for themselves. Say something remotely bad to an adult and you're canceled for life.
Coincidently the bad guys know this.
Last edited by Jonesy on Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added missing NT
~Qwerty~
"We're not broken, just bent and we can learn to love again"
Post Reply