Abuse is abuse...

[Crow]

Hi all,

I feel silly posting this, but I'm trying to get my head around something. I'm also used to (in my head anyway) minimising my abuse and comparing to others' experiences.

Genuine question here... (okay, two questions).
Why is there so much material and support and research and local government policies regarding child sexual abuse and not so much for the other forms of abuse? (I get that SA is horrific but all types of abuse mess us up.)
And, why do I often think that because I wasn't subjected to SA that my abuse is nothing in comparison? (Maybe it's the fact that there seems to be this general sense that when someone refers to child abuse it is assumed that they mean SA.)

Is it just me or is this a general feeling amongst those abused but not SA that they are a second grade survivor in some way? Maybe it's just me trying to minimise how I'm feeling. I don't know. I'm at work looking at all the policies and things on the intranet and it all refers to SA but not the other types and it just gets to me. My abuse was over a long period of time as a child! There's even so much about domestic violence but children are not recognised (company policies give support to DA survivors who are/were over the age of 16 at the time). Just makes me feel like we don't matter... like violence and control of children doesn't matter... unless it was SA and then all the support and research is there...

Sorry, just needed to get this down here.

Crow

[EasyStreet]

MT just because, admins please change if you think proper.

Hi Crow!

You are asking valid questions. I have thought about this a fair amount as part of trying to solve my own puzzle. I did not suffer any SA, but did have a sadistic older brother and cold, distant parents who did not recognize my abuse when I started to freak out because of it.

First, (your second question), I've never felt like a second class survivor on this forum. Your points about the general view of things (internet in general) is probably correct, maybe that's why I ended up here and not anywhere else.

Second (your first question) [I'm a riot today], I'm no expert but here is my theory: intensity of abuse has an objective side and a subjective side. Some abuse might not look like anything other than ordinary sibling rivalry, but be experienced as severe intensity by the person experiencing it. Also, some people might suffer from horrendous stuff (objectively speaking) but just shake it off due to some other individual factors.

So it's the subjective intensity that I think is related to damage and resulting symptoms. Related to. As in correlation, not a one to one relationship. So you could still have high subjective intensity, and somehow make it through pretty well, But by and large with exceptions, I think subjective intensity is related to damage/symptoms.

Having said this, I think (guess?) that the SA stuff can be more powerful in creating subjective intensity. We all experience some level of physical and emotional wounding growing up, but most people get along pretty well with it. I don't think most people experience some level of SA, except maybe higher incidence among women due to the way many men are socialized (on top of testosterone). (I'm a male BTW). None of these statements can be hard and fast, there are lots of exceptions I'm positive.

So maybe the correlation, or relationship, between type of abuse and subjective intensity and damage/symptoms is higher with SA. I don't think many people in the general public have an inkling of what we're talking about here, and so they normalize physical/emotional abuse but acknowledge SA. I think that's why you get the feelings that you expressed in your questions.

Standard disclaimer, I'm no expert, but maybe these ideas will help you find your own explanations.

My SA survivor friends on this forum are among the best people I've ever known. We are blessed to be with them in our struggles.

All the best!

[there]

Hi, Crow,
I've experienced PA, EA, and SA in childhood. Each at injurious levels.

You pose a really valid question. I don't have any fast answers, but a few thoughts.

EasyStreet added a lot of good comments, btw.

I believe that some of the EA I survived in childhood (and later), was at least as bad as the SA. That is subjective, my opinion based on experience. It can depend on severity and how long the abuse went on, too, right?

SA seems more obvious to people as abuse, I think. EA is definitely a usual part of society. The ultra rich gaining more and more wealth while others see their income or buying power shrinking is, in fact, EA. They don't care how people less well off feel about that. I'm generalizing, some wealthy people use their money try to help people in some ways.

Also, If you read The Courage to Heal, it's surprising what qualifies as SA. For instance, calling someone a wh*ore is SA.

We do matter. Your experience of abuse is no less important, no less consequential than another persons.

I hope this helped a bit, Crow.

[dancingfish]

Hey there Crow! :)

(I think this post is NT, but note it touches on mildly uncomfortable outlines of types of abuse.)

I had a ponder on this when I saw your post earlier, and just read EasyStreet's post who has put it very well. :) My thinking was using a concept of how/why one person can be "more" affected by perhaps a similar degree/type of abuse as another. It's an idea that there's a sort of set of scales - if we experience abuse and trauma that tears us down, but have a lot of support and other positive influences in our lives that bears us up, we can perhaps recover, offset, or deal with that abuse or trauma more readily. (Everyone varies, though! :) ) My own experiences centre on EA, VA, some PA, and no SA, for reference. I always felt I was more affected by my experiences than I "should" have been, until I realised there was a lot of it, I was isolated with no-one else to be protective or kind, etc. There was little to offset the abuse in short. (Interestingly (hah) I have issues with intimacy and have found some of the support and resources for SA survivors useful. I don't think experiencing one "type" of abuse necessarily excludes you from finding the help available for other forms useful, either.)

With SA though I don't see it as something that you could experience just a little bit of as a child, and have it offset by absolutely anything. I realised I've experienced SA as an adult, but then it was an issue of boundaries being crossed and it not happening at an appropriate time or with an appropriate person. When a child is involved, there is never ever anything that could ever be appropriate about it. It's as if EA, VA, PA can happen in a milder form (not saying that'll necessarily have any less impact on a person!), but SA goes straight in at a deeper level of horrible to my mind.

Perhaps because the lines between "mild" (I know) and heftier EA/VA/PA abuse are grey-ish areas, it's harder to define and identify when it's actually "bad" enough (more than someone in a position of power shouting briefly as an isolated, recoverable event). SA is straight up very bad, every single time, for me. Perhaps someone with other life experiences from me will differ in their thinking. Perhaps I've normalised the types of abuse I've experienced to some extent. In short though, EasyStreet put some of my thoughts in a well-spoken way I hadn't thought of. :)

Something I learnt through counselling I've always liked is that "If it affected you, it matters." End of. Doesn't matter what "type" of abuse it was, who it was, what it was - it matters. And that applies to everyone, equally. How any one person is affected varies so wildly, for so many reasons. No one case is any more or less important, and that includes *you* (and you, dear reader ;) ). No such thing as a "second grade survivor"! I understand how that thinking might arise, but it's I think it's due to how different types of abuse are seen, and also understood.

There are some wonderful folks on this forum I initially thought I might not be able to hold a dialogue with as I was too ignorant and hadn't experienced their "type" of abuse. Somehow it would be disrespectful to them as I wouldn't have enough understanding to converse with them on anything related to their trauma. However the effects of abuse and trauma often overlap with each other no matter the "types", I've found. I've had some exquisite shared moments of understanding with people whose experiences I'd describe as quite different from mine, yet still we reach this place of mutual understanding. Their acceptance of this survivor (me) who hasn't known their horrors is a thing of wonder for me, but perhaps mostly shines a light on my own ignorance. :)

That's about my thoughts on it, if it helps. It's an area I feel I still don't fully understand, as I come at it from my own limited experience. It's a good one to tackle though I think, as I find it ends up interlinked to our own perceptions of ourselves, our history, and what we assume others may think of us too. :)

[coconuts]

I think the others expressed what I would say fairly well. With SA there is a solid, you crossed the line sorta. There are some grey areas but its obvious
With PA and EA it feels greyish sometimes and subjective. On the other hand it is definitely debilitating in its own way.

Honestly I experienced some prettt "extreme" abuse, however, I often feel outsiderish as well. Kind of what dancingfish was saying, people think that because they havent had the same experiences that they cant relate, they dont want to offend by acting like they understand when they feel like they couldnt imagine it. However, on the whole abuse injures ALL its victims and there are consequences of abuse that are shared. I relate quite easily with people who have experienced abuse in any of its forms.

Also if we are getting all subjective. There was a point where the SA kind of was just more SA. While some of my abuse was beyond horrible some of the abuse that seems by some arbitrarily made up system in my head to be less severe has really fucked with me. My dad never SA me but still his PA and his EA effects me to this day. I remember some really harsh beatings and feeling like i never was wanted and i never belonged. I was often separated from the family as an outsider, and quite frankly that messed with me a lot. Neglect as well. If i ranked some of my abuse by how much it "hurt" me or what feels most damaging some of the EA, neglect, and PA would be near the top. If my only SA had been the molestation by my grandfather i honestly think SA would not be the number one damaging type of abuse I experienced. Thats me. And purely subjective

Abuse in general is a crossing of boundaries. When the people who should have been loving and protecting us betray that and cross those boundaries it injures us. I believe that is one of the biggest hurts in abuse. The utter betrayal.

Please know that no one here is judging or ranking your abuse. Boundaries were crossed, trust was betrayed, injury was done. All of those things will have lasting effects and all of those deserve to be acknowledged and healed and overcome.
Coconuts

[Crow]

Thank you so much for all the replies it really has encouraged me. I unusually yesterday just stopped all my work and took a break to type that post rather than doing it at home once my children have gone to bed, it really was getting to me and I was having a tough day with all of my thoughts.

EasyStreet - As everyone else has said you wrote a well worded and thought out response. I get that everyone's experience is valid and individual, and we are all different and have different tolerances and genetics etc. that make coping different for each of us. You make some great points and I will read and re-read this thread again and again. You're right in that people who haven't experienced what we have just don't understand - that is what makes this place so comforting and helpful.

there - I think EA contributes to a huge (if not the most) part of the long term struggles and trauma into adulthood. A lot of my problems right now (and on reflection of the years) are because of the EA I suffered.
Something I think about often is that one person could experience one single horrific abusive incident, and another person could experience a long term sustained different sort of abuse yet they both suffer the same traumatic effects. (I need to stop comparing my experience to others'.)
I've been thinking today... am I a natural empath who puts others first and feels for the suffering, or am I this way as a result of child abuse and putting my needs behind others for so many years? I suppose really it doesn't matter. If it is a result of the abuse then that has to be a positive that I take away from the experience (seems odd typing that but if I had to take a positive from the negative that would be one).

dancingfish - your explanation of the 'set of scales' is really helpful and something that I hadn't thought of before! It was reassuring to read your comments of SA resources helping you because I always feel guilty applying those things to my own healing. It's like I feel like an imposter somehow. But it's true that the effect of the abuse (whichever types) is sometimes the same with the same feelings and struggles.

coconuts - you summed up the other comments really well and have added to the reassurance that I'm not a fraud. I've read so many of your posts on this forum and I have to say I'm inspired to keep on at this healing journey even when things feel hopeless and feel hard going.

Thank you sincerely to all of you

Crow

[Noname]

Hi Crow,

I know I'm a little late here. I love all of the discussion that's going on in this thread.

I experienced many types of abuse, and for me I feel that the EA was "worst" when it comes to long-term effects. Because it cuts down to the core of who you are and tells you you aren't good enough. And you can't physically see the aftermath. There's no bruises, no physical evidence. It's so hard to prove EA, because a lot of it is very covert (at least in my experience). It's at least as much of a betrayal as PA or SA, and so many people lack understanding of it. PA and SA are widely acknowledged as abuse. The general public agrees that it is wrong. But with EA people just don't get it.

It's so easy to compare our experiences with others', and minimize our experiences and feelings. Even when logically we know it's not helpful, and that we'd never judge others as harshly as we judge ourselves. It's human nature - especially for humans who have been so hurt and betrayed.

Thank you for starting this topic. It's so interesting to read others' experiences and points of view on all of this.

[Crow]

Hi Noname,

(Really frustrating... I typed a reply and somehow it disappeared - usually I copy to clipboard as I go just in case but this time I didn't.)

To summarise, I totally agree with what you said. I think for me I have the memories of the PA and the VA (which is linked to the EA) but these memories come and go and fade in time, however it is the EA that effects me the most. Any sort of abuse has EA attached to it and I think that is why survivors struggle so much. I often separate the types of abuse and as such that is why for me I don't relate to SA, but am beginning to realise that whether one has been SA or one has been PA and endured daily beatings or other violent attacks, what is there with both of these examples is the EA that goes with it. And it is that EA that as you say, cuts to the core and undermines everything good in you and casts doubt on everything you do, say and think... well, in my case anyway.

Isn't it strange though how we can apply a different standard and approach to others than ourselves? I was talking to a colleague at work yesterday about trauma and how we can give advice and show compassion to others, yet don't apply the same thing to ourselves. Maybe it is human nature like you say or maybe it is a direct result of the abuse we suffered.

I'd love to hear others' take on it all even if it is just because I seem to seek affirmation from others to help me feel okay with how I am feeling.
Let's keep this going, I certainly would like to gain more insight.

Crow

[coconuts]

I definitely am much harsher on myself than i would be to anyone else. My therapist will ask me sometimes what i would say to a friend who was dealing with the same thing. Its always hard to face that. I can literally feel the struggle inside, knowing what i should be able to tell myself but unable to accept that sort of compassion.

Personally my 2 cents is that its partly human nature but made worse by abuse. Like i think everyone does it, but those who have experienced abuse do it harsher

[heavenlydove]

Hi Crow and everyone writing here,

When I was at College in the States, I remember we had a speaker come to talk to all of us about SA - this person told us that one in four women would experience some form of SA in their lifetime. That is in my mind an awful lot of abuse. I know maybe all sorts of stuff is lumped in there, some which may be considered mild SA, but still that number is very high. For this reason, it is likely that there are very people affected by SA in the States and elsewhere. The problem with SA is that people on the whole seem to find it very hard to open up about and talk about. That is the case for both men and women though men seem to have a much harder time talking about it as it is still unfortunately a very taboo subject among men. I never experienced SA but I did experience both EA and PA.
It is really hard to know what is more damaging to people - I think that this is very personal to each individual. I think for me, physical torture was the most long term damaging, but domestic abuse from someone in an awful rage the most frightening that I experienced. My dad used to beat me a lot but he was never explosively angry, just a consistent physical abuser whereas my brother's beatings are more frightening as when he is out of control he could cause me more harm than anything my dad ever did. I was never frightened of being seriously injured at the hands of my dad, but am constantly concerned about my welfare in regards to my brother. So everything has its own potentially damaging elements. Just my 2 pence worth though.