Wim Hof methods - anyone used, thoughts?

[johnram]

Hi all,

i struggle with meditation, but have come across the wim hof method (loads of youtube videos and he has been in news more lately).

I find the breating similar to meditation and it does lift my mood, if i can get myself to do it. The cold showers part is harder, but once i am in the rythym i can keep it up more regularly

i post to ask others views, experiences (both positive and negative) of Wim and the approaches and supposed benefits

thanks

[EasyStreet]

Johnram, you keep inspiring me! You are a real Viking!

Had never heard of this but looks pretty interesting. The cryotherapy for inflammation is a totally new idea for me.
My interest is mostly for my youngest daughter who struggles daily with endometriosis.

But I (try to) manage my own chronic post-surgical neck and back pain also and any new ideas are welcome.

If his breathing exercise works for you, I'd say you found a new tool for your kit. I'll read further on Wim Hof.

Be well!

[ephes]

Eh, maybe take his stuff with a grain of salt?

First off, he didn't invent those methods, he just slaps the "Wim Hof" tag on it, simplifying and reformulating. He didn't "redefine biology" either, the effects of breathing and meditation on the autonomous nervous system were known long before. There's smarter people than me that having picked apart what he's doing, I'd suggest some "critical googling". Also he did an AMA on reddit, might be interesting.
It's been a while since I read up on it, the methods itself are promising, the link with physical exercise is obviously beneficiary, though I'd be careful with the cold exposure part for anyone with PTSD or panic attacks. Cold exposure is a physical stressor and potential trigger. Also, are higher cortisol levels really what the already cortisol spewing amygdala of person with PTSD needs?

To be honest, I would probably be less critically inclined towards what he's preaching if I hadn't found the man as a person off-putting.

By coincidence I came across Wim Hof and his publicity team more than 10 years ago, while he was on his way to do a physically exerting and daring stunt in a spectacular place. Pulling this off would have given him immense worldwide recognition and following. He failed because it was a ludicrous idea. But he may have been just after the initial media interest, it's hard to imagine that anyone in their right mind could think it possible to pull this off.
I didn't talk to him but observed him (it was impossible to ignore him). It was a remote place with no other options for people but to remain in that particular spot for the night. He and his team squatted the space blocking off others from facilities, they were rowdy, rude, littering in a place where really you don't do that, kept other people from much needed sleep. The main activity was him showing off how cool and how fit he was, about half that time his crew filmed him and did interviews but he obviously and obnoxiously needed to dominate everyone's attention even without cameras pointed at him (otherwise one could have thought he does this to further his media image which in turn generates income for him). Charismatic no doubt, but that man is an extroverted narcissist if I ever saw one. Of course, this is based on my personal view, not interacting directly with him, enduring him for an evening, night and morning from as far away as possible (not very far) a long time ago: an entirely subjective assessment.

Because he pissed me off I later read up on "his" methods, thereby proving that all publicity is good publicity (sigh). And admittedly, he did bring these methods to my attention - and had I not had an interest in yoga, meditation and Tibetan culture before, that would have been the first I'd heard of it. He gets some credit for spreading the word or at least making people curious about this stuff.

[ephes]

Ok, that sounds grumpy, I'm really grumpy tonight, sorry about that.

EasyStreet: I've been trying out acupressure mats (AcupressMat, ProsourceFit ) for my chronic back pain. I find it helps some once you get past the initial discomfort. I combine it with some meditation (though I'm not very good at meditating).

[EasyStreet]

Hi,

I just listened to the first Joe Rogan podcast and then read a bit on the breathing exercise, and gave it a try.

To your point, ephes, I knew in the first 5 minutes I was not going to send him a dime, but continued listening to see if something of value was there, despite the hucksterism. He avoids giving details, I guess he is living off of selling the details.

I got something very strong from the exercise, a body awareness that I am not used to. I lthink there may be some value there.

As far as cold, I think people just vary in how they relate to cold. I kind of relate to cold the way he seems to. Formative years spent in frozen north of US. I love being outdoors in the winter. And when I used to sauna, I loved the outdoor plunge pool and icy shower. So I think I'll try the cold shower and report back.

The value of any technique is in the practice of it. Is there a mindfulness thread on any of the subforums?

Thanks ephes, I'll google the mat. I have multiple spinal fusions/stabilizations and can use all the non opioid help I can get.

Johnram, I'm going to try the shower and will report back!

[johnram]

Ephes - glad you shared, and i think you and i have a similarity, i think i would have the same reaction to meeting Wim. He is exceptionally good at self promoting as are his marketing team in selling the effectiveness of this method. He uses anecdotal stories to convince people it cures depression, autoimmune disease etc. I met a trainer of Wims method recently who did admit though, that when he had depression and some other ailments, the tools didnt work / help. Hence my forum posting.

Easystreet - i am a fan of Joe Rogan, for a similar reason to what i said above about Wim, i was off put by him initially, but over time found him to being smarter and more balanced. it took time for me to like him, but i think the allure is the guests he has on. do you listen to him / other podcasts often?

I guess broadly i want to be regular in a mindful practice, and this seems a way to try, the breathing definitely gives me a mood boost, but how long it lasts and what it does, i do not know. The cold showers, i just like the fact, i get scared initially, which shows how faulty thinking can be (its just water, it wont harm me), trying to remove those layers and layers of protection i built up to survive.

[johnram]

Johnram, I'm going to try the shower and will report back!

how was the shower?

[johnram]

The cryotherapy for inflammation is a totally new idea for me.

But I (try to) manage my own chronic post-surgical neck and back pain also and any new ideas are welcome.

I looked into Cryotherapy before as i was pondering trying but it is very expensive, and the studies dont support its effectiveness (yet), but Wim is not cryo to be clear.

Ephes idea re Accumats sounds promising, have heard of these before. My wife is a big fan of accupuncture for her back issues.

[johnram]

Sorry for repeated postings. One last thought - when i shower with warm water, i relax and i get a bit more at ease. when i shower with cold water, i feel a charge to be active - for what thats worth

[ephes]

So you guys just motivated me to look up what a Joe Rogan is:). Thank you.

Yes, the methods themselves are not to be discarded just because there's an irksome person talking about it.

Also, nothing against cold in general or cold water in particular. Using cold water to treat chronic health problems and to influence the immune system has been made popular again in the 19th century by S. Kneipp and others (though it may not be so well known in English speaking countries), itself based on older (roman and other) practices. Being as old as it is there's all kinds of spin-offs and reinterpretations, some of them weird.
The Kneipp stuff is usually used in combination with exercise, diet change and what one may see as mindfulness. One of the differences to what Wim Hof sells seems to be the more gradual, less aggressive approach and the lack of focused breathing exercise.