Hi Sadmike
I think you are right on the money when you mentioned that your childhood experience with alcoholism and abuse in your home prepared you for this. I had the same, and I have read that this is typical. I would go one further and suggest that our childhood experience didn't just prepare us to deal with a relationship with a CSA survivor - it made it far more likely that we would choose to be in the relationship in the first place. Looking back, I repeatedly made the same relationship choices. If my relationship ended, it is very likely I would be drawn to another survivor of some sort.
I am flummoxed by your wife's therapist's behavior as you describe it. It is hard to know what exactly is going on there. Not to harp on the same therapy-for-you string, but I was actually able to connect my therapist to my wife's at one point so that they could confer. Obviously this required mutual permissions and I was not privy to their discussions, but it did help them both guide us better. My therapist was able to help me think through what my wife's therapy might be focusing on, and how I can be ready. If you are still taking suggestions, mine for now is to back off of your wife's therapist. Putting your wife in the middle of a power play is not a helpful dynamic. Be who you are, who your wife knows you to be. I am gathering that she is not completely on board with the message that your relationship is the problem, and it might be healthy for her to discover that herself. In fact, assuming her therapist is not a complete crackpot, that might be what the therapist is waiting for - your wife to discover that she wants the relationship after all.
You are right that there is no cure for CSA, but a survivor can learn healthier strategies for surviving that can open new possibilities. My experience as a "loved one" is that my role is to provide support when asked. The decision to survive (thrive) is one the survivor must make on their own and for their own reasons. The prospect of facing these memories is so horrible and painful that nobody else can ask it of them. Just let her know that you are there for her - and say it about half as often as you want to. Any pressure, anger or frustration from you (while normal and valid) will be counter-productive right now.
A 30-year GREAT marriage falling apart due to wife’s CSA
Moderators: Aspen, Jonesy, Harbor
-
the husband
- Member
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:11 am
-
Sheep
- Member
- Posts: 1540
- Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:59 pm
Re: A 30-year GREAT marriage falling apart due to wife’s CSA
Hi Sadmike,
I think it's great that you are giving your wife the space she needs. My ex pressured me to be under the same roof again after he was hospitalized with some bad kidney stones. How could I say, "No?" I read that book about boundaries too, as well as going through Charles Whitfield's workbook on healing the child within. I'm hoping you won't become impatient and give up on your wife. My spouse at the time, obviously put a limit on my healing (3 yrs), and apparently that was not long enough because I am still on this healing journey 10 yrs. later! My ex, too grew up with an alcoholic dad that was abusive to his mom. They divorced when he was about 13 yrs. old. Both of us needed to work on our own healing. We are ready when we are ready. However, we do tend to choose the same relationships that mirror our childhood again (repetitious compulsion) so why not work on yourself during this time of separation?
Here's to healing,
Sheep
I think it's great that you are giving your wife the space she needs. My ex pressured me to be under the same roof again after he was hospitalized with some bad kidney stones. How could I say, "No?" I read that book about boundaries too, as well as going through Charles Whitfield's workbook on healing the child within. I'm hoping you won't become impatient and give up on your wife. My spouse at the time, obviously put a limit on my healing (3 yrs), and apparently that was not long enough because I am still on this healing journey 10 yrs. later! My ex, too grew up with an alcoholic dad that was abusive to his mom. They divorced when he was about 13 yrs. old. Both of us needed to work on our own healing. We are ready when we are ready. However, we do tend to choose the same relationships that mirror our childhood again (repetitious compulsion) so why not work on yourself during this time of separation?
Here's to healing,
Sheep
-
Sadmike
- Member
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:33 pm
Re: A 30-year GREAT marriage falling apart due to wife’s CSA
The comparison of our childhoods has been on my mind. I’m concluding that while the end result (last few years) is horrible, I think it is what made our relationship so great. We both needed someone to be close to all of the time and we both cared more about the other than ourselves. With those attributes, and both with a sense of humor, how could you ever argue and grow apart? It’s like it was such a great ride that I have been waiting for the crash, as it didn’t seem right that we had it so good for so long.
I have yet to say anything critical to Sue about her therapist as I know she’s her main friend for guidance, and unfortunately Sue seems to trust her more than me. I really like the idea of me seeing a therapist for the reasons you stated. I could use some personal guidance, but to have the two therapists possibly communicate would be great. That will be my plan if Sue’s group therapy sessions don’t help her see what is really happening. I honestly think that those sessions with real life similar stories and people’s emotions will open the door that her therapist hasn’t/won’t. I hope someone in the group will recommend to her a therapists from personal experience. It just seems to me that if her therapist’s strategy was for Sue to “discover that she wants the relationship after all” that she wouldn’t say that the CSA had little/nothing to do with us. That puts the pressure to create false memories/reasons on why we’re a part.
I would never put a timeframe on this, I just hate seeing her confusion/unhappiness and knowing that the last great years are slipping away. My head keeps spinning that if she could just understand that the unknown unhappiness isn’t me, she could come home and get the support/love that she needs. Or at least start that path were she lives now. Then it could take as long as needed. I just can’t imagine what it will be like being all alone when the reality of her childhood hits her.
Yesterday was my Moms 84th B-day and Sue texted me the day before to see what was planned for Mom. She was going to be in town for the therapist but then had to get back for an office get-together that night. I told her about the dinner that was planned with the rest of the family…. Short story. She came and stayed much later than she said she would, and it was a normal/good night. So, it’s like she still wants to be a part of the family that has cared for her so much for 30 years, as she contacted me, I didn’t tell her about it to where she would feel obligated to come. But then when she left she was colder than when she left from her B-day the other day. Why? Maybe because she spent time with the therapists a few hours earlier? I’m not a paranoid person, but something isn’t right. Should I ask Sue what book she is working out of? Maybe I can then better understand what she’s going through. She’s very tired of no progress for the past year and that’s why she talked about her dating, she just wants to be happy. Once again, that points to me being the problem, not the CSA. And once again that is where the therapist should step in and say it’s CSA not me as she doesn't seem to have a problem with Sue dating someone else! My mind keeps spinning….
As I read this before I hit enter, I realize that since you don’t know me, I could be the guy/nut you hear about on the news and the therapist did the right thing getting Sue out and planning a new future (live alone and start dating). But please take me for my word that what I write is 100% honest as is the way I live. I don’t drink, smoke or do any other drugs. I have spent most of my life creating/working kid improvement campaigns. I cherish Sue and would never do anything to upset/hurt her, ever! I have been the guy on the news and in magazines, but for the great things Sue and I have done for the youth.
Thanks for listening and your input!
SadMike
I have yet to say anything critical to Sue about her therapist as I know she’s her main friend for guidance, and unfortunately Sue seems to trust her more than me. I really like the idea of me seeing a therapist for the reasons you stated. I could use some personal guidance, but to have the two therapists possibly communicate would be great. That will be my plan if Sue’s group therapy sessions don’t help her see what is really happening. I honestly think that those sessions with real life similar stories and people’s emotions will open the door that her therapist hasn’t/won’t. I hope someone in the group will recommend to her a therapists from personal experience. It just seems to me that if her therapist’s strategy was for Sue to “discover that she wants the relationship after all” that she wouldn’t say that the CSA had little/nothing to do with us. That puts the pressure to create false memories/reasons on why we’re a part.
I would never put a timeframe on this, I just hate seeing her confusion/unhappiness and knowing that the last great years are slipping away. My head keeps spinning that if she could just understand that the unknown unhappiness isn’t me, she could come home and get the support/love that she needs. Or at least start that path were she lives now. Then it could take as long as needed. I just can’t imagine what it will be like being all alone when the reality of her childhood hits her.
Yesterday was my Moms 84th B-day and Sue texted me the day before to see what was planned for Mom. She was going to be in town for the therapist but then had to get back for an office get-together that night. I told her about the dinner that was planned with the rest of the family…. Short story. She came and stayed much later than she said she would, and it was a normal/good night. So, it’s like she still wants to be a part of the family that has cared for her so much for 30 years, as she contacted me, I didn’t tell her about it to where she would feel obligated to come. But then when she left she was colder than when she left from her B-day the other day. Why? Maybe because she spent time with the therapists a few hours earlier? I’m not a paranoid person, but something isn’t right. Should I ask Sue what book she is working out of? Maybe I can then better understand what she’s going through. She’s very tired of no progress for the past year and that’s why she talked about her dating, she just wants to be happy. Once again, that points to me being the problem, not the CSA. And once again that is where the therapist should step in and say it’s CSA not me as she doesn't seem to have a problem with Sue dating someone else! My mind keeps spinning….
As I read this before I hit enter, I realize that since you don’t know me, I could be the guy/nut you hear about on the news and the therapist did the right thing getting Sue out and planning a new future (live alone and start dating). But please take me for my word that what I write is 100% honest as is the way I live. I don’t drink, smoke or do any other drugs. I have spent most of my life creating/working kid improvement campaigns. I cherish Sue and would never do anything to upset/hurt her, ever! I have been the guy on the news and in magazines, but for the great things Sue and I have done for the youth.
Thanks for listening and your input!
SadMike
-
the husband
- Member
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:11 am
Re: A 30-year GREAT marriage falling apart due to wife’s CSA
Hi sadmike
I don't think that you are a nut. I have a very sensitive BS meter and can tell that you believe what you are saying. CSA almost always has a significant impact on important relationships, whther that impact is acknowledged or not. I am unsure of what the therapist is saying. Either there has been a miscommunication, or the therapist is er..."unorthodox".
I am hopeful that the former is true, but my advice is the same either way: wait it out for now. You can't afford to be perceived as an obstacle.
I'm sure you are not aware that the phrase "false memories" is somewhat provocative in the CSA world. The "False Memory" debacle began in the 1970's after a study regarding language manipulation concluded that a therapist's word choice could induce false memories. This was used to discredit those who reported CSA. The media picked up on it and it became fodder for TV plots and so on. I know that's not where you were going with this, but I wanted you to be aware of the specter of that phrase.
The dating thing doesn't actually point to you being the problem. It IS sort of about you, I think, but not in the way you fear. The problem is that you matter. A date does not know one's history, is not tuned in to one's moods and mannerisms, can be avoided on bad days, does not deserve explanations, and can be dismissed without a lot of baggage. One does not consider facing one's demons for the sake of saving a relationship with a date. It all sounds so free and fun. But a date is not necessarily selfless, won't be there or won't be able to provide what is needed, comes with strings and expectations, and dating as an adult is not so free and easy. I hear it sucks. She may figure it out before she even tries.
I don't think that you are a nut. I have a very sensitive BS meter and can tell that you believe what you are saying. CSA almost always has a significant impact on important relationships, whther that impact is acknowledged or not. I am unsure of what the therapist is saying. Either there has been a miscommunication, or the therapist is er..."unorthodox".
I am hopeful that the former is true, but my advice is the same either way: wait it out for now. You can't afford to be perceived as an obstacle.
I'm sure you are not aware that the phrase "false memories" is somewhat provocative in the CSA world. The "False Memory" debacle began in the 1970's after a study regarding language manipulation concluded that a therapist's word choice could induce false memories. This was used to discredit those who reported CSA. The media picked up on it and it became fodder for TV plots and so on. I know that's not where you were going with this, but I wanted you to be aware of the specter of that phrase.
The dating thing doesn't actually point to you being the problem. It IS sort of about you, I think, but not in the way you fear. The problem is that you matter. A date does not know one's history, is not tuned in to one's moods and mannerisms, can be avoided on bad days, does not deserve explanations, and can be dismissed without a lot of baggage. One does not consider facing one's demons for the sake of saving a relationship with a date. It all sounds so free and fun. But a date is not necessarily selfless, won't be there or won't be able to provide what is needed, comes with strings and expectations, and dating as an adult is not so free and easy. I hear it sucks. She may figure it out before she even tries.
-
Sadmike
- Member
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:33 pm
Re: A 30-year GREAT marriage falling apart due to wife’s CSA
Your thought’s on dating is something I didn’t consider. It makes a lot of sense and if anything, it at least helps my mind deal with the reasoning of her considering it. Thanks!
Regarding false memories: A friend’s daughter in the UK (we’re in the US) was the victim of child abuse/trauma (not sexual). With two young children and a caring husband she was always unhappy with no explanation. She tried therapy and prescribed drugs with no success. It got as bad as cutting herself. To find happiness she had an affair and told her family she was leaving. Then a friend told her that a friend had the same problem and went to hypnotherapy. After 7 sessions it came out that her problems were from her fathers mental abuse (he never touched her). After working through it, she then couldn’t believe that she was going to leave her family and she is now closer to her husband and very happy. So…. About 8 months ago I suggested to Sue to see if her therapist did this. Sue was very open to the idea and wanted to give it a try. She asked her therapist to find that yes, she does hypnotherapy, but not for this??? The reason given was that she won’t do it due to lawsuits!?! So I researched it and found out about false memories. I understand the history of “false memories” in the CSA world, but it is actually the best description of what Sue is saying/believing. Sue doesn’t see the comparison between her and the lady in the UK as the trauma was different, so in her mind they have nothing in common… If things don’t get better maybe we’ll have to take a very long trip to the UK for help.
As Sue said the other day that she was going to see a friend on Christmas for a couple of days she looked to tear up a little. It was Christmas 31 years ago when I first told her I loved her and this will be the first we won’t see each other… Her group therapy starts next week. I hope someone there helps her.
Happy Holidays!
SadMike
Regarding false memories: A friend’s daughter in the UK (we’re in the US) was the victim of child abuse/trauma (not sexual). With two young children and a caring husband she was always unhappy with no explanation. She tried therapy and prescribed drugs with no success. It got as bad as cutting herself. To find happiness she had an affair and told her family she was leaving. Then a friend told her that a friend had the same problem and went to hypnotherapy. After 7 sessions it came out that her problems were from her fathers mental abuse (he never touched her). After working through it, she then couldn’t believe that she was going to leave her family and she is now closer to her husband and very happy. So…. About 8 months ago I suggested to Sue to see if her therapist did this. Sue was very open to the idea and wanted to give it a try. She asked her therapist to find that yes, she does hypnotherapy, but not for this??? The reason given was that she won’t do it due to lawsuits!?! So I researched it and found out about false memories. I understand the history of “false memories” in the CSA world, but it is actually the best description of what Sue is saying/believing. Sue doesn’t see the comparison between her and the lady in the UK as the trauma was different, so in her mind they have nothing in common… If things don’t get better maybe we’ll have to take a very long trip to the UK for help.
As Sue said the other day that she was going to see a friend on Christmas for a couple of days she looked to tear up a little. It was Christmas 31 years ago when I first told her I loved her and this will be the first we won’t see each other… Her group therapy starts next week. I hope someone there helps her.
Happy Holidays!
SadMike
-
the husband
- Member
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:11 am
Re: A 30-year GREAT marriage falling apart due to wife’s CSA
Hi sadmikeThis is indeed a difficult time. I hope that you are taking care of yourself.
The group therapy might be helpful in that people who have had similar experiences might be able to give feedback that your wife can receive. It is very common to compartmentalize one's own terrifying issues by defining them so narrowly that nobody can possibly understand - and therefore one does not need to unpack and analyze those experiences. The group might even get her to understand what's happening with her therapist.
I'm not so sure about hypnotherapy for CSA. Or rather: I'm not so sure about THIS therapist and hypnotherapy for PTSD As an alternative, check out Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR). I'll leave it to you to research it if you like. It helped my wife process some troubling memories which were already emerging on their own and were overwhelming her. A certified practitioner will have no fear of inducing false memories. Note that the eye movement was later discovered not to be an integral part of the process after all.
The group therapy might be helpful in that people who have had similar experiences might be able to give feedback that your wife can receive. It is very common to compartmentalize one's own terrifying issues by defining them so narrowly that nobody can possibly understand - and therefore one does not need to unpack and analyze those experiences. The group might even get her to understand what's happening with her therapist.
I'm not so sure about hypnotherapy for CSA. Or rather: I'm not so sure about THIS therapist and hypnotherapy for PTSD As an alternative, check out Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR). I'll leave it to you to research it if you like. It helped my wife process some troubling memories which were already emerging on their own and were overwhelming her. A certified practitioner will have no fear of inducing false memories. Note that the eye movement was later discovered not to be an integral part of the process after all.
-
Sheep
- Member
- Posts: 1540
- Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:59 pm
Re: A 30-year GREAT marriage falling apart due to wife’s CSA
Hi SadMike,
I just attended my first ACOA (Adult Children of Alcoholics) meeting before the holiday. It just may be the place for me, although it took me many years to get to this point. I am also engaging in EMDR with my current therapist. It is a lot of work and takes much mental and emotional energy, but that's what is needed for me to try and come to a place of peace with the childhood abuse. I'm hoping the support group may be a safe place for your wife and could be an instrumental part of her healing. I attended a women's group for 4 years when I first started recovering (back in 2003). I still keep in contact with one of the women from that group even today. A book that was recommended for reading from another woman in that support group was called Perfect Daughters. I could relate to so much in there and thought it was due to my dad's compulsive gambling, as I was not yet ready to accept that he was also an alcoholic! It is probably only in the past few years that I acknowledged that my dad is an alcoholic. It was an 'aha' moment for me. Hoping you find some support for yourself during these trying and difficult times.
Trust is hard,
Sheep
I just attended my first ACOA (Adult Children of Alcoholics) meeting before the holiday. It just may be the place for me, although it took me many years to get to this point. I am also engaging in EMDR with my current therapist. It is a lot of work and takes much mental and emotional energy, but that's what is needed for me to try and come to a place of peace with the childhood abuse. I'm hoping the support group may be a safe place for your wife and could be an instrumental part of her healing. I attended a women's group for 4 years when I first started recovering (back in 2003). I still keep in contact with one of the women from that group even today. A book that was recommended for reading from another woman in that support group was called Perfect Daughters. I could relate to so much in there and thought it was due to my dad's compulsive gambling, as I was not yet ready to accept that he was also an alcoholic! It is probably only in the past few years that I acknowledged that my dad is an alcoholic. It was an 'aha' moment for me. Hoping you find some support for yourself during these trying and difficult times.
Trust is hard,
Sheep
-
Sadmike
- Member
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:33 pm
Re: A 30-year GREAT marriage falling apart due to wife’s CSA
I read your responses as they were posted but it has taken me some time to want to write…. I read some on EMDR in the past as I was trying to find out what was going on, but I need to look more in to it now as another option/tool (If I get the chance to suggest it). Hearing that it helps real people makes more sense then just reading the process that I read. S’s memories are minimal and she seems to want to keep it that way. Then she can say that what happened, although admitting that it messed up her sexual drive/feelings for 40 years, has nothing to do with our relationship.
On Christmas Eve I visited some friends that have been like family for 27 years. I told them what is happening as they were expecting Sue and I to stop by on Christmas day as we have for the 27 years. They were blown away as I did my best to give S's reason for leaving me (“I didn’t love you like I should have.”) as well as all of the information I have on what I believe is the real problem. It felt good to come clean and hear the support as they know how amazingly close S and I were, inseparable. S knew I was stopping by there so she contacted me to see if I told them. I told her yes and why… She then stopped by there on Christmas to talk with them. I thought, GREAT, finally a long time friend/family that will support how she felt about me for at least the first 20 years. But it didn’t go that way as they told me their feelings later that day. Their first comment was that a lot of people fall out of love for no reason at all and that S said that is what happened 10 years ago. She was unhappy for no reason that she could come up with. She also told them that for the last few years she worked late and tried to be with another friend just so she wouldn’t have to come home to me (crushing to hear). But when she was home or with me, we did everything together and it was great until bedtime. That is where over the last 15+ years she started pulling away. She told them that for the last 10 years she felt like we were just friends. They brought up the CSA and she said since she doesn’t remember much that it has nothing to do with how she fell out of love. Keep in mind that during the days up until 2 years ago she always said she loved me more, gave me love cards/flowers, and 3 years ago cut out hearts and plastered my monitor with them “Love ya!”. It’s like in her head she tried to stay away (I had no idea) yet when we were together we got along like we did 25-30 years ago. S also told them that she wants a divorce so she can start the next chapter in her life, but she doesn’t want to hurt me. She said she will go to the group therapy for me, to show that the CSA isn’t the problem.
So, with our friends agreeing that this type of thing (fall out of love for no reason yet stays around for another 9 years) just happens, I was crushed. Still no help for S. But then they said that they don’t believe at all S’s main reason “I didn’t love him like I should have.” WHAT??? They were at our wedding and know S couldn’t be happier as the one friend was the Bridesmaid that helped her get ready. But they didn’t want to tell S that, as she was crying….
All of this obviously killed me, she wants a divorce, she’s done as soon as she can prove what the therapists believes… You can be molested at 6-7 many nights by a step grandfather, then something that ended her up at the Police station at 10 (doesn’t remember what the guy did to her), then having sex during early teens, then a Mom that called her a liar when her boyfriend came on to S around 15, then admits to the therapist that it affected her entire sexual life (sex is dirty, is anti-penis), yet it has nothing to do with our 30 years together?!?!
Am I wrong? Am I just looking for reasons to keep her with me forever like she said we would be up until 2 years ago? I know if I try to help to much it will push her away, but she’s talking divorce and the next chapter in her life, WHAT? I still think it’s just me trying to help as friends don’t want to disagree with her. They are friends and don’t want to upset her. Is it possible that whenever she does face the CSA that she will be so far gone from me that she will still move on (10 years of misguided damage)? Is it possible that S and the therapists can create a new life for her without facing the CSA and she’ll be happy for the rest of her life? Once again when I thought there was hope, BAM!
Due to timing I have to start planning the European trip that is something we do each year (paid by work). I am gone for a month (I work off a laptop) and she would take her two weeks off work and meet me on the journey. It has always been a great trip as we also meet up with around 50 friends from other countries around the world. What to do? She feels that these trips give me false hope if she’s with me. But I just love to be around her and she deserves/loves these trips. The days are like years ago as we constantly try to make each other happy like people in true love. Then at night it’s obvious that we are just friends. Do I go alone? Do I ask her to go? Do I wait for her to bring it up? But there is a lot of advance planning needed and I leave in about 4 months. Some friends say that I should go alone as she constantly gets the best of both worlds, she lives away yet gets to do the fun stuff. But this isn’t a normal separation in my eyes…
My mind is mush and confused. I hope I’m not getting to the point to where I’m a pain asking for help/suggestions… but advice from someone that has lived or is living through something similar is so much more helpful than a therapist with no life experience (As I’m learning from Sue’s therapist that is working on S’s next chapter!).
Thanks for the ear!
Sadmike
On Christmas Eve I visited some friends that have been like family for 27 years. I told them what is happening as they were expecting Sue and I to stop by on Christmas day as we have for the 27 years. They were blown away as I did my best to give S's reason for leaving me (“I didn’t love you like I should have.”) as well as all of the information I have on what I believe is the real problem. It felt good to come clean and hear the support as they know how amazingly close S and I were, inseparable. S knew I was stopping by there so she contacted me to see if I told them. I told her yes and why… She then stopped by there on Christmas to talk with them. I thought, GREAT, finally a long time friend/family that will support how she felt about me for at least the first 20 years. But it didn’t go that way as they told me their feelings later that day. Their first comment was that a lot of people fall out of love for no reason at all and that S said that is what happened 10 years ago. She was unhappy for no reason that she could come up with. She also told them that for the last few years she worked late and tried to be with another friend just so she wouldn’t have to come home to me (crushing to hear). But when she was home or with me, we did everything together and it was great until bedtime. That is where over the last 15+ years she started pulling away. She told them that for the last 10 years she felt like we were just friends. They brought up the CSA and she said since she doesn’t remember much that it has nothing to do with how she fell out of love. Keep in mind that during the days up until 2 years ago she always said she loved me more, gave me love cards/flowers, and 3 years ago cut out hearts and plastered my monitor with them “Love ya!”. It’s like in her head she tried to stay away (I had no idea) yet when we were together we got along like we did 25-30 years ago. S also told them that she wants a divorce so she can start the next chapter in her life, but she doesn’t want to hurt me. She said she will go to the group therapy for me, to show that the CSA isn’t the problem.
So, with our friends agreeing that this type of thing (fall out of love for no reason yet stays around for another 9 years) just happens, I was crushed. Still no help for S. But then they said that they don’t believe at all S’s main reason “I didn’t love him like I should have.” WHAT??? They were at our wedding and know S couldn’t be happier as the one friend was the Bridesmaid that helped her get ready. But they didn’t want to tell S that, as she was crying….
All of this obviously killed me, she wants a divorce, she’s done as soon as she can prove what the therapists believes… You can be molested at 6-7 many nights by a step grandfather, then something that ended her up at the Police station at 10 (doesn’t remember what the guy did to her), then having sex during early teens, then a Mom that called her a liar when her boyfriend came on to S around 15, then admits to the therapist that it affected her entire sexual life (sex is dirty, is anti-penis), yet it has nothing to do with our 30 years together?!?!
Am I wrong? Am I just looking for reasons to keep her with me forever like she said we would be up until 2 years ago? I know if I try to help to much it will push her away, but she’s talking divorce and the next chapter in her life, WHAT? I still think it’s just me trying to help as friends don’t want to disagree with her. They are friends and don’t want to upset her. Is it possible that whenever she does face the CSA that she will be so far gone from me that she will still move on (10 years of misguided damage)? Is it possible that S and the therapists can create a new life for her without facing the CSA and she’ll be happy for the rest of her life? Once again when I thought there was hope, BAM!
Due to timing I have to start planning the European trip that is something we do each year (paid by work). I am gone for a month (I work off a laptop) and she would take her two weeks off work and meet me on the journey. It has always been a great trip as we also meet up with around 50 friends from other countries around the world. What to do? She feels that these trips give me false hope if she’s with me. But I just love to be around her and she deserves/loves these trips. The days are like years ago as we constantly try to make each other happy like people in true love. Then at night it’s obvious that we are just friends. Do I go alone? Do I ask her to go? Do I wait for her to bring it up? But there is a lot of advance planning needed and I leave in about 4 months. Some friends say that I should go alone as she constantly gets the best of both worlds, she lives away yet gets to do the fun stuff. But this isn’t a normal separation in my eyes…
My mind is mush and confused. I hope I’m not getting to the point to where I’m a pain asking for help/suggestions… but advice from someone that has lived or is living through something similar is so much more helpful than a therapist with no life experience (As I’m learning from Sue’s therapist that is working on S’s next chapter!).
Thanks for the ear!
Sadmike
Last edited by Jonesy on Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed identifying information
Reason: Removed identifying information
-
mustard seed
- Member
- Posts: 1520
- Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:49 am
Re: A 30-year GREAT marriage falling apart due to wife’s CSA
Sadmike,
It's sad to hear all of this, I can feel your pain through your words. So sorry for what you're going through.
I wish I had something brilliant to say, some solution; but I don't because I am very much like your wife.
Like many survivors, I am a very good performer. I can put my happy face on, conquer the world and nobody would suspect that there was anything wrong inside. I performed well as a good and loving wife.
My gut reaction is to say, "if you love something set it free, if it comes back to you, it's yours.
I divorced my husband in 2010, yet I love him. I am not in love with him and I do not want to live with him anymore. I don't want to hurt him either, he is a good friend and we are co-parents. We were together 14 years and I know his heart-it's a good one. I hate to be the one who breaks it but I had to-for me.
I married him for the wrong reasons (which I know now). My fault entirely, I should not have married him, yet I did and now we both suffer the consequences of my error as do the children. A heavy burdeon to bear.
It took three years for him to back off as I needed before I was able to trust that he could respect my boundaries. Now we are true friends (sometimes with benefits as I explore my sexuality). Not fair to him again, yet he agreed. I am not looking for anyone else. I know I'm not ready and need to heal but it is his worst fear that I will meet someone and fall in love. I think that's why he clings so tightly. It can be smothering at times.
You obviously love her and care deeply. Be her friend now. It is up to her to face or not her CSA. The CSA may be the reason for the split or it may not. Healing from it may or may not bring you back together. Family, friends, professionals, etc...each react to events like yours in their own way. You can control none of that, what they say or do.
You said you know that if you press too much you'll lose her. I believe you're correct there. I am so sorry Sadmike but perhaps it is time for you to focus on yourself, your grief and loss. Stay connected to S but not too close, leave her with the space she needs to figure things out. She's willing to go to the group for you (something may come of it-but I wouldn't bet money on it).
It's very difficult for "victims" to face the ugliness. Some never do. I could be totally off my rocker and completely wrong but as I said, I write from my gut; from my heart, if you will. You can not fix her.
I hope the very best for you Sadmike,
Please take good care of yourself.
Warmest regards,
ms
It's sad to hear all of this, I can feel your pain through your words. So sorry for what you're going through.
I wish I had something brilliant to say, some solution; but I don't because I am very much like your wife.
Like many survivors, I am a very good performer. I can put my happy face on, conquer the world and nobody would suspect that there was anything wrong inside. I performed well as a good and loving wife.
My gut reaction is to say, "if you love something set it free, if it comes back to you, it's yours.
I divorced my husband in 2010, yet I love him. I am not in love with him and I do not want to live with him anymore. I don't want to hurt him either, he is a good friend and we are co-parents. We were together 14 years and I know his heart-it's a good one. I hate to be the one who breaks it but I had to-for me.
I married him for the wrong reasons (which I know now). My fault entirely, I should not have married him, yet I did and now we both suffer the consequences of my error as do the children. A heavy burdeon to bear.
It took three years for him to back off as I needed before I was able to trust that he could respect my boundaries. Now we are true friends (sometimes with benefits as I explore my sexuality). Not fair to him again, yet he agreed. I am not looking for anyone else. I know I'm not ready and need to heal but it is his worst fear that I will meet someone and fall in love. I think that's why he clings so tightly. It can be smothering at times.
You obviously love her and care deeply. Be her friend now. It is up to her to face or not her CSA. The CSA may be the reason for the split or it may not. Healing from it may or may not bring you back together. Family, friends, professionals, etc...each react to events like yours in their own way. You can control none of that, what they say or do.
You said you know that if you press too much you'll lose her. I believe you're correct there. I am so sorry Sadmike but perhaps it is time for you to focus on yourself, your grief and loss. Stay connected to S but not too close, leave her with the space she needs to figure things out. She's willing to go to the group for you (something may come of it-but I wouldn't bet money on it).
It's very difficult for "victims" to face the ugliness. Some never do. I could be totally off my rocker and completely wrong but as I said, I write from my gut; from my heart, if you will. You can not fix her.
I hope the very best for you Sadmike,
Please take good care of yourself.
Warmest regards,
ms
Last edited by Jonesy on Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed identifying information
Reason: Removed identifying information
-
the husband
- Member
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:11 am
Re: A 30-year GREAT marriage falling apart due to wife’s CSA
Hi sadmike
I'm sorry you are having such a difficult holiday season. This is a safe place to voice whatever you need to. You are never a burden here, and in fact we all benefit from each other.
You are spending a lot of time and energy trying to validate your experience of the early part of your relationship through the use of people who do not know what you know. You are trying to reconcile your wife's actions and words then with what she is saying now, as if either could cancel the other out. I am here to tell you that it is possible that there will always be some pieces that don't fit in the puzzle. Memories are subject to changing perceptions, and your wife's perceptions may have shifted to protect her both from her past and from the loss of your relationship.
I am reminded of the early days of astronomy, before modern telescopes, when unseen planets were sometimes discovered by their influence on the orbits of known planets. Just because your wife and therapist do not acknowledge the impact of her CSA on your relationship does not mean that it isn't there. It is there for my marriage to be sure. My wife's sister, also a CSA survivor, barely acknowledges their shared past at all and says she's all but forgotten about it - but the impact on her life choices is obvious and profound. Her life is functional, but I don't think it is a happy one.
In my wife's case, no amount of direction from me to get help was tolerated. It made things worse. She had recalled enough to know that she was facing some serious demons, and she wasn't going to face them for me. There are so many horrible self-messages and self-images that are involved with these memories. Things that abusers said, assumptions that "I did that, so I must be this", and so on. Ultimately she chose to face them for herself (and secondarily because she didn't want to give up our family).
I think you need the support of somebody who will be firmly on your side, who will validate what you already know is true, and to whom you can explore your full range of feelings with. For me early on it was allowing myself to express the anger I could not show my wife. Only recently in therapy, after years, have I begun to express the deep sadness that I feel. The fact that I went to therapy impressed her. At the time she was rebelling against the idea that SHE was the only one with the problem. Ultimately I see she was correct that I also had a hand in what happened to us, though not in the way she believed.
As you may have noticed, I try not to give suggestions. I choose instead to tell you what my experience has been in hopes that you will see parallels that are useful to you. However, since you have asked for suggestions:
I urge you to find a professional therapist who is knowledgeable in CSA / PTSD and to see them regularly. It could help you with this relationship, and it would definitely help you with your next if it comes to that. You also need your thoughts/feelings validated, and a safe place to express yourself.
I would plan the trip without her. It seems like you've already had some discussion about it with her, as you say she says it gives you false hope. This might be the best thing for you, and perhaps for her. You've got your superman cape on, and in your quest to save your wife, you have failed to notice that you are in need. I share this trait with you, as do most adult children of alcoholics. Go forth and live, good sir.
I'm sorry you are having such a difficult holiday season. This is a safe place to voice whatever you need to. You are never a burden here, and in fact we all benefit from each other.
You are spending a lot of time and energy trying to validate your experience of the early part of your relationship through the use of people who do not know what you know. You are trying to reconcile your wife's actions and words then with what she is saying now, as if either could cancel the other out. I am here to tell you that it is possible that there will always be some pieces that don't fit in the puzzle. Memories are subject to changing perceptions, and your wife's perceptions may have shifted to protect her both from her past and from the loss of your relationship.
I am reminded of the early days of astronomy, before modern telescopes, when unseen planets were sometimes discovered by their influence on the orbits of known planets. Just because your wife and therapist do not acknowledge the impact of her CSA on your relationship does not mean that it isn't there. It is there for my marriage to be sure. My wife's sister, also a CSA survivor, barely acknowledges their shared past at all and says she's all but forgotten about it - but the impact on her life choices is obvious and profound. Her life is functional, but I don't think it is a happy one.
In my wife's case, no amount of direction from me to get help was tolerated. It made things worse. She had recalled enough to know that she was facing some serious demons, and she wasn't going to face them for me. There are so many horrible self-messages and self-images that are involved with these memories. Things that abusers said, assumptions that "I did that, so I must be this", and so on. Ultimately she chose to face them for herself (and secondarily because she didn't want to give up our family).
I think you need the support of somebody who will be firmly on your side, who will validate what you already know is true, and to whom you can explore your full range of feelings with. For me early on it was allowing myself to express the anger I could not show my wife. Only recently in therapy, after years, have I begun to express the deep sadness that I feel. The fact that I went to therapy impressed her. At the time she was rebelling against the idea that SHE was the only one with the problem. Ultimately I see she was correct that I also had a hand in what happened to us, though not in the way she believed.
As you may have noticed, I try not to give suggestions. I choose instead to tell you what my experience has been in hopes that you will see parallels that are useful to you. However, since you have asked for suggestions:
I urge you to find a professional therapist who is knowledgeable in CSA / PTSD and to see them regularly. It could help you with this relationship, and it would definitely help you with your next if it comes to that. You also need your thoughts/feelings validated, and a safe place to express yourself.
I would plan the trip without her. It seems like you've already had some discussion about it with her, as you say she says it gives you false hope. This might be the best thing for you, and perhaps for her. You've got your superman cape on, and in your quest to save your wife, you have failed to notice that you are in need. I share this trait with you, as do most adult children of alcoholics. Go forth and live, good sir.