Parenting after abusive childhood

[Figuring1t0ut]

I am a 32 year old married woman with 2 kids, a 3 year old boy and 1 year old girl. I was mostly emotionally abused by my neglectful alcoholic father and my narcistic borerline mother. I was also physically abused by her a few times (kicked to the ground like a dog, punched in the face). Recently I’ve also started wondering if I may have been sexually abused. These problems caused me to mistrust my parents and authority so I became rebellious and promiscuous. Eventually in my mid twenties I was able to pull myself together and have a successful life.

My husband’s parents were also abusive, from the stories I’ve heard he was often beat up and whipped by his dad, once it was so bad that he couldn’t go to school for several days. His mother smeared sh*t on his face to potty train him. I think he was probably emotionally degraded in other ways and to this day despite his success and intelligence he is pretty insecure and extremely dependent on his parents approval of him... he can not say no to anyone, he has a superiority complex, bad temper, very grumpy, and extremely dogmatic, etc etc. My husband’s story is different from mine because, 1 his parents really did have his best interests at heart even though their actions were misguided, 2 the punishments seemed to be consistent and for a reason (whereas mine were random and unpredictable) and 3 my husband was successful with no period of rebelliousness. Now, my husband worships his parents whereas I have estranged myself from mine.

And now, here is where I am looking for advice. First, I have difficulty disciplining my son without feeling very guilty. Especially if I lose my temper. I have no idea what is appropriate or too much. If I yell at him or say the wrong thing I feel awful, but then I also worry about overcompensating and being too soft on him. My husband on the other hand is on the opposite end, where he thinks the punishments he received are appropriate. He told our son when we potty trained him what his mom did to him when he had an accident, as a way to threaten our son. He got very defensive with me when I labeled it as abusive. He threatens to hit my son all the time, although he’s only ever smacked him on the hand. I think he’s sometimes way too aggressive, yelling and starting confrontations with my son to “show him who’s boss.” There have been a few times where I have tried to step in, very gently so as not to disagree in front of the kids, but if I do my husband immediately escalates to a screaming match, I assume to show dominance, and once even started pounding the table violently. I was actually scared, I can only imagine how the kids felt. Writing this is making me cry. Anyway. My husband also talks about how he thinks his “beatings” were justified and necessary so I sometimes worry that he might repeat this with our son. However in the last three years my husband had been “all talk.”

Does anyone have any experience with this? Either with having trouble disciplining your own kids, or with a spouse who was abused and does not recognize it as abuse, repeating the behavior? I also wonder if sometimes my husband isn’t really out of line and I am just too sensitive because of my own past...

I was seeing a therapist who I loved but she wasn’t covered under my insurance and I haven’t been able to find anyone else. And my husband doesn’t “believe” in therapy because he thinks he’s perfect.

[Banana]

Hi Figuring1tOut

While I don't have children myself, I do have a lot of experience working with children, at various ages and in various contexts. Saying that, I'm not going to pretend for one second that I have all the answers. I really don't. I do want to say that I hear just how difficult this situation is for you. It can't be easy when both you and your husband have experienced abuse at the hands of your respective parents. I really am so sorry for everything that happened to you, to both of you.

You mentioned that your son is 3. He is still very young and it is normal for him to be testing the boundaries. He will need plenty of reminders of your expectations and a consistent routine does help. In my opinion, the thing that will help the most is for you and your husband to be on the same page. It will be confusing for your children if you and your husband discipline in different ways. Do you think perhaps your husband is unsure how to parent? Is it possible that his only frame of reference is how he himself was parented? It could be helpful to attend a parenting course and/or spend time with other parents of young children. I have often found it helpful watching how other people interact with each other. Personally, I see the way your husband was treated by his parents as being abusive. The difficulty comes from the fact that he does not recognise this himself. It is clear from what you have written that he thinks of their treatment of him as being normal, maybe even good, discipline and parenting. Do you think that couples counselling might help? I know you said that he doesn't believe in therapy but perhaps he might be more willing to attend if you were to go together.

I wish I could offer more help, more suggestions. I'm sure others here, who have children and may have been in similar situations, will respond to your post. I really didn't want it to be left without any response but please do disregard any of what I've said that isn't relevant to you and your family. If nothing else, I offer you support and lots of hope that you find a way through.

With caring
Banana

[1000miles]

Hi Figuring1tOut,

I think those are good points and questions, and glad you're raising the issues in order to protect your kids from abuse.

Seems to me, based on your descriptions, that your concerns are well founded. No parent is perfect, but kids generally shouldn't feel afraid of their parents. Situations that feel emotionally out of control, or that feel dangerous and unpredictable should be avoided. When parents discipline, kids should feel that the parents are in control, are not acting out of anger, are not aggressive or threatening, are not shaming or belittling. Ideally it should come across as loving, controlled, appropriate discipline to enforce boundaries that the child is able to understand. Again, no parent is perfect, and frustration is inevitable, but I think this should be the goal.

Negative consequences for "bad" behavior are a necessary part of parenting, but they can be calm, controlled, and administered lovingly (though also seriously). In fact, I think self-control can be taught much more easily to children who feel secure and that their parents are on their side.

Just my general thoughts in answer to what you wrote. Parenting is obviously challenging, and appropriate methods of discipline are sometimes debated.

There are a lot of good books on parenting, so that might be an avenue to get helpful information and advice. Perhaps your husband would be willing to read together on the subject?

Sorry to hear you're dealing with challenges due to the abuse you and your husband suffered. Kudos for reaching out for help: a courageous and helpful thing to do. Best wishes for clarity in your situation.

1000miles

[Figuring1t0ut]

You mentioned that your son is 3. He is still very young and it is normal for him to be testing the boundaries. He will need plenty of reminders of your expectations and a consistent routine does help. In my opinion, the thing that will help the most is for you and your husband to be on the same page. It will be confusing for your children if you and your husband discipline in different ways. Do you think perhaps your husband is unsure how to parent? Is it possible that his only frame of reference is how he himself was parented? It could be helpful to attend a parenting course and/or spend time with other parents of young children. I have often found it helpful watching how other people interact with each other. Personally, I see the way your husband was treated by his parents as being abusive. The difficulty comes from the fact that he does not recognise this himself. It is clear from what you have written that he thinks of their treatment of him as being normal, maybe even good, discipline and parenting. Do you think that couples counselling might help? I know you said that he doesn't believe in therapy but perhaps he might be more willing to attend if you were to go together.

With caring
Banana

Thank you, I appreciate your response. My husband has very strong ideas of how to parent (particularly discipline) and that’s just like his parents did. He isn’t open to books, research, courses etc. The funny thing is we spend a lot of time at his parent’s house with the kids and several times his parents have stepped in to calm my husband down when he gets mad at our son. And they have minimized some of the stories I mentioned above so I feel like they know it was innapropriate? Or maybe they don’t want me to know. Anyway maybe that will help with time. I like the idea of watching other parents interact (for me at least). The trick would be finding someone else that my husband would respect.

[Figuring1t0ut]

Hi Figuring1tOut,

I think those are good points and questions, and glad you're raising the issues in order to protect your kids from abuse.

Seems to me, based on your descriptions, that your concerns are well founded. No parent is perfect, but kids generally shouldn't feel afraid of their parents. Situations that feel emotionally out of control, or that feel dangerous and unpredictable should be avoided. When parents discipline, kids should feel that the parents are in control, are not acting out of anger, are not aggressive or threatening, are not shaming or belittling. Ideally it should come across as loving, controlled, appropriate discipline to enforce boundaries that the child is able to understand. Again, no parent is perfect, and frustration is inevitable, but I think this should be the goal.

Negative consequences for "bad" behavior are a necessary part of parenting, but they can be calm, controlled, and administered lovingly (though also seriously). In fact, I think self-control can be taught much more easily to children who feel secure and that their parents are on their side.

Just my general thoughts in answer to what you wrote. Parenting is obviously challenging, and appropriate methods of discipline are sometimes debated.

There are a lot of good books on parenting, so that might be an avenue to get helpful information and advice. Perhaps your husband would be willing to read together on the subject?

Sorry to hear you're dealing with challenges due to the abuse you and your husband suffered. Kudos for reaching out for help: a courageous and helpful thing to do. Best wishes for clarity in your situation.

1000miles

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond. Honestly, I’m the one more likely to lose my temper. Even if my husband yells, it’s controlled (unless directed at me). I did find some other posts from people with some of the same concerns on other boards which were also helpful. It sounds like a pretty common problem.

[rosa123]

It is hard for me to reply to this post because it is hurts me and I find it frustrating as I would like to have that magic wand that would make life easier for you, your children, and even your husband. I know what it is to be an angry parent who loses her temper. I would yell at my child and could not prevent myself from doing it. I was under a lot of stress (trauma causes stress) but still I am very sorry for my child, now a grown up man. I wish he wouldnt have that in his story.

When he was 2-3 I was afraid that I would abuse him sexually. I was lucky enough to find someone from social services who gave me support and advise and helped me save my son from having sexual abuse in his story. When my son was 9-11, I yelled a lot at him. Again, based on good advice, I reinforced as much as I could the good part of the relationship with my son: playing and laughing together, reading stories, sharing everyday life experiences, listening, acknowledging my bad temper (he was allowed to point it to me - even though that did not completely stopped it).
Discipline was based on principles, love, trust, caring and consideration. My son was sweet, respectful and self-motivated. I did not hit him. Following bad advice, I punished him with taking TV away, but my inner heart led me to rather listen to him, what he had to say about what I considered misbehavior. Instead of trying to impose myself, I listened to him, and he listened to me.

I remember on one occasion, he had fallen into the habit of not putting the milk back on the fridge before going back to play. I told him that the milk would get dammaged, and told him I wanted to have good milk, and asked him if he also wanted good milk. He agreed. I told him I knew he was in a hurry to go back to play and asked him if he could check how long it took him to put the milk back in the fridge. He did. (It was very quick). Then I asked him if he could put it back from then on. Which he agreed to, and did indeed.

I thought that the concept of punishment, making a child suffer because he was not fulfilling an expectation, was very cruel and very wrong. To me it did not matter that I was not physically hitting him. The concept of willingly making a child suffer was to me abusive.

"Normal" parents out there use punishment. Society uses punishment.

Society also has lots of expectations. Sometimes, impossible expectations to fulfill. I believe in caring for the wellbeing of myself and others, in building trust in that care, in integrity, honesty, authenticity, loving kindness, compassion for our limitations, and similar values.

Defecation is a human function. If we don't our body gets poisoned. We may prefer to defecate in certain locations for reason of hygiene. As parents, potty training can be stressful if we see our children's performance as a function of how good we are as parents, and not as something for the child's wellbeing.

You mention your husband wanting to "dominate", a 2-3 years old child?

I am going to stop here. Please write back, if you feel like writing.

[Figuring1t0ut]

Thank you so much for your reply. You have some really valuable advice about listening and communicating respectfully with your child rather than just punishing them or making them suffer. I completely agree with this and I’m going to start using this approach more.
Fortunately things have improved for us over the last few weeks. When I last wrote, my youngest was teething and my oldest was potty training at night and so I wasn’t getting more than an hour of sleep a night for a couple of months. I’ve also been under a lot of stress - so all of these things combined made me a very stressed out, impatient, sleep deprived and confused Mom. There were a couple of times when I was up with the kids at night and lost my temper and yelled at them when I should have been helping or comforting them, and I felt awful for it.
Now that we are all sleeping again, I feel I’m a much better mom.
As for my husband, I think he is realizing that some of the things his parents did were over the line. He has also been under a lot of stress recently and I’ve noticed that makes his temper worse and he becomes less patient.

To give an example of what I mean by showing my son who’s boss, this was a pretty common scenario at dinner time a month or two ago: my son (3) would refuse to sit at the table for dinner a couple of nights in a row, my husband would respond by yelling at him, which scares my son and causes him to not respond, which my husband interprets as disobedience, which causes my husband to shout more, then my son cries, then my husband puts him in his room for time out, and then my son just screams and cries until we go get him. After a couple of nights of this, my son gets more resistant to sitting for dinner. So my husband becomes confrontational before dinner even starts - like he barks at my son to sit at the table for dinner and my son will refuse just because of his tone. Meanwhile I’m watching all of this and trying to diffuse the situation which makes my husband even more angry and he feels he needs to yell at me in addition to my son to regain authority. I hope that makes sense.

Lastly, I am seeing a therapist again and I think she will be able to help me figure out ways to talk to my husband about this without making him defensive so that we can work together and appropriately discipline our kids.

[Fleur]

Hello Figuring1tOut


Having had my, separated now, H and I having differing rules was confusing for our son, but by the time he was about 4.5 Years, he had it worked out - Mum is like this and Dad has 2 ways (1 when relaxed, another when busy)

I have temper problem. So, I used time out as a space for ME to calm - son was cranky first few times, but after we put a working clock in his room, he could come out when the big hand got to ... Usually 5 to 10 minutes

Having a fun activity immediately afterwards for when it was MY timeout was helpful for both of us - if it was a timeout for HIS behaviour, we'd quietly get on with whatever task had been interrupted

Agree with you that tone of voice, threats, and gestures can be just as frightening for young children as carrying out the implied violence, and is a form of abuse

May you and your H work together as a team in everyday life, being kind, fair and consistent in interactions between you as parents as well as with your children


Wishing you very well in all respects

[rosa123]

Hello Fleur, I like the idea of your time out and after fun activity. I wished I would have implemented it. : - )

Figuring1tOut,
Dinner time can be very fun and rewarding. I actually learned to say jokes, although good sense of humour is more about a playful attitude. You may ask your husband if he would like to create fun memories at eating time, and if he does, maybe you two can work something out?
I am very sorry that you and your husband were victims of abuse because abuse is so insiduous! It creates a very ingrained habit of negative emotions: anger, blaming, guilt, rigidity, demanding, irritability and others that come in the way of loving, caring, playful, accepting, and compassionate attitude towards self and others, particularly your children, or in this case those your husband probably feels as an extension of himself.
I hope therapy works. I know, in my case, that even with the good will, it is difficult.

[Jessica Jones]

Hi, I am new to this forum but not new to parenting or the struggles you are going through (my kids are 11 and 8). One thing that helped my husband and I was to read books about parenting and child development together that we could agree on. My husband isn’t a huge reader but we found this series of books that is “Your Two Year Old” “Your Three Year Old” etc that are really short and talk about what is developmentally appropriate for each age and ideas for dealing with behaviors that come up at those ages. They are older books so a few things might seem a little dated but overall we have always found them helpful. We also have a rule that if one of us feels like the other is losing control in a parenting situation we are allowed to take over for the other parent. So we don’t have conflict in front of the kids we just tell the other parent we will take over and they can take a break and then if there is conflict to be had we talk about it later. Age 3 is a really really hard age, they are challenging but not at all logical. Hang in there.